There is nothing better than hands on astrology. The clearer the question the better it can be answered – and that doesn’t only apply to a horary question! Here was the question kindly asked by Christopher:
Here’s a chart that might present an exception: Natus, Nov. 8, 1965; 14:48 CST +6:00; Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi; 88W27 33N39. Ascendant 2 Aries 09. Moon 12 Taurus 22. The SAN is conjunctional in 00 Scorpio. The Trutine date and time are Feb. 5, 1965, 10:48:29 AM CST +6:00. This confirms the recorded birth time to the minute, with an adjustment to 14:48:02. But then we’d expect precision from a military hospital! However, if I’ve understood the procedure, the Animodar would have us adjust the MC to the degree of Mars (25 Sagittarius 55), giving him an Ascendant in 22 Pisces. This would require a birth time correction of almost a half hour. Not implausible, but it seems a stretch. I’d be interested to see how you would tackle this.
Let us look at both the base chart and the SAN, or the chart for the previous New Moon:
My software (Janus) calculates an Asc of 2 Aries 06 for the given time and places the Moon at 2 Aries 09 in the Trutine chart, the time being 10:48:21 AM. Now the rule for Animodar is to look for the planet that has the most dignities at the SAN degree. At 0 degrees Scorpio, Mars has the most, if not all, dignities. Mars in the base chart is at 25 Sagittarius 54. This is not very close to either MC or Asc. What next? I would recommend looking at the SAN chart as a whole. In the SAN chart Mars Lord of the New Moon is at 14 Sagittarius 35. What should catch our attention is the position of Jupiter, his dispositor. Jupiter is at 1 Cancer 16 in the SAN chart close both to the MC and Ascendant of the base chart. The MC of the base chart at 1 Capricorn 15 is closest. If we nudge the MC one minute so that it is at 1 Capricorn 16 we would have a birth time of 14:48:02. Astonishing. This is also the corrected time that Christopher arrived at through adjustment of the Trutine of Hermes. Whatever the discrepancy, both the Trutine and the Animodar seem to reinforce the birth certificate time.
Down to the second with both methods… wow, I’m amazed, Thomas! This is a truly elegant analysis that brings immediate conviction. You’ve also constructively reminded me that when I hit a wall, I should always go back to first principles (i.e., look to the dispositor!). I can’t wait to test the Animodar on some other charts. Very promising, indeed.
Thanks ever so much!
My pleasure! 🙂 And I am happy to hear that you will be exploring other charts. It was an excellent question and I think will also animate others to explore the technique more closely. Thank you too!
Good point 🙂
I have just tested two more client charts. Compelling results. With the first, the Trutine brings the dispositor of the SAN to a partile conjunction of the IC. Perfect. With the second, the Trutine gives an Ascendant that is exactly halfway between the degree positions of the SAN dispositor in the birth chart and in the SAN chart (the midpoint). In this instance, it is the Sun (also the LoG) who disposes the SAN, and he sends a trine to the Ascendant.
It is fascinating! I was once inclined to think that both these methods ‘work’ only once in a while. Not until I revised my conception of ‘what works’ did it dawn on me that I had unnecessarily reduced my horizon. What was helpful was what seemed to me the complicated rules of finding the hyleg. It became obvious then that each chart contains its own key and it is up to the astrologer to find it. And paradoxically it is also the astrologer who must provide a matching key by keying into the chart!
This has been a most satisfactory discussion, thank you for initiating it!
I think your rationale is very wise and clear. One old precept of the ancients was that a planet which does not aspect its domicile is in aversion and therefore has a low testimony in that place!
Whereas Mars does not aspect Scorpio, Jupiter is the one who aspects the conjunction degree more closely; however he does not have any dignity on that degree. That is a discovery which needs some reflections.Ptolemy considered an aspect a very low dignity.
Thank you for your thoughts. Jupiter is actually a very good candidate as he is exalted in Cancer. So the trine that you point out is reinforced. Of course only Mars has dignity at 0 Scorpio, but then we are back with the disposition of Mars…
I see there are different schools here 🙂
For what I understood from my notes taken at my course aspect is very important in considering which planet has the greater right .
This is Ptolemy about animodar:
“After this, it must be observed what planets have dominion over the said degree: and their dominion depends always on the five following prerogatives, viz. on triplicity, house, exaltation, terms, and phase or configuration.”
I don’t believe these prerogatives are mentioned in order, because hardly phase could be at the last but one place in Ptolemy’s mind considering that he believes the phase can alter the temperament of the planet.
So I would consider if the planet is aspecting or not the syzygy, but this is just my opinion.
Have a nice Sunday,
As a general rule I don’t favour one school of thought more than the other. 🙂 Instead I try to understand them all as best I can. Probably the only general rule I follow is to let the chart speak for itself. It is interesting that you mention Ptolemy, and different prerogatives to be considered. There may be an order, but usually a chart will not fulfil them all, and there are those charts that might not fulfil any of them. That is the point where one is enjoined to look at the chart yet closer.
Also a very nice Sunday! And thank you for your thoughts.