Dame Detrimentia C.E. and a Case of Cazimi, or?

Dear Dame Detrimentia,
I not long ago convented (sic) to traditional aztrologia. But I not unnerstan cazimi. Is this bull-shit to hide deep trouble? What is before combust gets consummated? I whelmed by this, but not overly. Thanks for any help.


Dear Kazimir

Yes many an Astrologer has put his faith in the consummation of cazimi only to end up combusted and castrato!

Perhaps we should ask dear Dr Nostuabuk as to whether the traditional interpretation of cazimi (descriptive of a planet located within an arc of 17 minutes of the Sun’s longitude) does in fact imbue that planet with the Sun’s brilliant munificence? Or is the state of cazimi, being embraced “in the forge or the heart of the Sun”, in fact the worst state of combustion?

Bonatti only considers a planet to be cazimi when it lies within 16 minutes of both longitude and latitude with the centre of the Sun’s disc, which happens very rarely. Venus was cazimi by both latitude and longitude on 9th June 2008 at her superior conjunction behind the Sun at 18* 43 Gemini, but like you Kazimir my whelming was not overlied then either! In fact my whelming was very much undered!

What says my dear friend Dr Nostuabuk?

With kind condescension,

Dame Detrimentia (C.E.)

15 thoughts on “Dame Detrimentia C.E. and a Case of Cazimi, or?

  1. Dear Dame Detrimentia,

    In legendary times, Cazimi was unheard of. . . what you didn’t see you didn’t get!

    Of course when the advent of the maths entered the arena, our Historical Classicists had to show how smart they were with their new found toy, astro-calculations or celestial trigonometry.

    Well, we can almost hear the Historical astrologers saying in some dark, candle-lit room coming up with the idea that if Cazimi was rare, it must surely have a distinct meaning other than a simple combust state.

    Low and behold ‘whelmed’ was created to be ‘undered’ ! And a magnificent job it was too! Traditional astrologers decided to rethink the combust and sided with the earlier bunch-for-lunch astro crowd.

    I have looked at only a few sports charts to qualify the Cazimi state, but so far, I haven’t had much success. Seems that the elusive Cazimi is but a willow-the-wisp dressed in Sultan’s clothing, hiding behind that dazzling array of effusive effulgence that’s actually hiding its egregious position.

    Sir Arthyr,
    Your humble servant

  2. Just so Sir Arthyr!

    Cazimi would indeed appear to be a case of ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’!

    I have only one chart where cazimi was efficacious, and that might have been a coincidence due to other testimonies.

    Receptively yours,


  3. Sure I will add fire to fire and pain to pain, my friend in C&T (he is one of the founders) swears on cazimi efficacy inside 1 degree orb and dismisses 17 minutes story as another of Arab nugae

  4. Oh, Gracious Dame,

    The source of “Cazimi” is in the bible, of course, the greatest book of astrology ever written. In the book of Esther (Jewish-Persian queen , aka Ishtar,
    ) we find the following verses in Chapter 4:

    “11 All the king’s servants, and all the provinces that are under his dominion, know, that whosoever, whether man or woman, cometh into the king’s inner court, who is not called for, is immediately to be put to death without any delay: except the king shall hold out the golden sceptre to him, in token of clemency, that so he may live. How then can I go in to the king, who for these thirty days now have not been called unto him?”

    And in chapter 5:
    “1 And on the third day Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king’s house, over against the king’s hall: now he sat upon his throne in the hall of the palace, over against the door of the house. 2 And when he saw Esther the queen standing, she pleased his eyes, and he held out toward her the golden sceptre, which he held in his hand and she drew near, and kissed the top of his sceptre. 3 And the king said to her: What wilt thou, queen Esther? what is thy request? if thou shouldst even ask one half of the kingdom, it shall be given to thee.”

    As we know , Esther as Ishtar is Venus and the king is the Sun, and so what we have here is a biblical description os “Venus Cazimi” and of combustion.

    Dr. Elexia Radix.

  5. >Oh, Gracious Dame,

    >The source of “Cazimi” is in the bible, of course, the greatest book of astrology ever written.

    Ah, Venerable Doctor,

    I think certain Hellenes would assert that the Iliad was! But how ironical to find an Arabic term so helpful to Esther! ( I wonder if the King’s sceptre was 16 or 17 minutes of longitude?)

    Do you think that Daniel, who in verse 4 of the Book of Daniel did such an intensive crash course in the tongue, learning and wisdom of the Chaldeans that by verse 20 he was the best astrologer in the whole of Babylon, employed Cazimi in the lion’s den?

    In which case perhaps only essentially dignified planets and personages such as myself benefit from Cazimi!

    Graciously yours,
    Dame Detrimentia (C.E.)

  6. Ah, Yes Dame Detrimentia,

    And let us not forget the travels of Odyesseus, (Ody to his friends) truly an epic journey through the zodiac!

    In the end, we see a grand conjunction with Ol’ King Ody through Telemachus, Eumaeus, and Philoetius who, while in Cazimi, slay the last of Ody’s enemies.

    My humble twice-cent
    your servant,
    Sir Arthyr

  7. I was told this means Uranus is “in the heart of the Sun”.

    I mention it here, because I am interested in this and someone here commented it almost never happens. If my natal chart were “corrected” it would likely be within the criteria mentioned here, but I don’t know.

    I have been using 12:15 PM with good success, however 12:13 PM may be more accurate for matching up “life events” used in “corrected charts”. 12:13 PM and “precession” matches up with the “life event” of my mother’s death.

  8. Dear Connie,
    True, this weblog is devoted to Western Astrology. You may however not have noticed that it has a traditional focus. There are fundamental differences with modern astrology. One of them is that the outer planets do not have any rulerships. If they are considered at all, they are treated as fixed stars. This means that Uranus cannot be cazimi as the only aspect considered for fixed stars is the conjunction, and that mostly with a one degree orb. There is also something else. Light is an essential factor, as cazimi strengthens the light of a planet. So it is not a matter of numbers alone (the 17 minutes). If a planet has no light, as Uranus, its light cannot be strengthened. The best example of the effect of cazimi is the New Moon. On her approach to the Sun her light is burned away. In her conjunction with the Sun she is fertilized with the seed of light which comes to fullest development when she is full. In an older post I expressed it this way:

    “The New Moon is cazimi, in the heart of the Sun. This is like a lover’s embrace from which she becomes pregnant with the light of the Sun. The “Sol and Luna” poem, first published in 1550 in the “Rosarium philosophorum” describes this quite nicely (I present first the original German text and then an English translation):

    “O Luna, durch meyn umbgeben
    und süsse mynne,
    Wirstu schön starck
    und gewaltig als ich bin.

    O Sol, du bist über all liecht zu erkennen.
    So bedarfftu doch mein
    als der han der hennen.”

    “Oh Luna, enfolded by me
    and sweet Minne (love)
    you will become as strong
    and powerful as I am.

    Oh, Sol you are above all lights
    the greatest known
    But you need me/mine
    as the rooster the hen.””

    The slower moving planets have a chance to be cazimi at least once a year, so it is rare but to say it almost never happens is stretching it! The inner planets have a chance at least once a month!

    best regards,

    PS All non-spam comments are welcomed here, but with all respect I think there is nothing more boring than people speaking about their own charts. I try to avoid it where possible.

  9. Oh, I googled. I found you.
    I only had this page to read.
    I was responding to the comment cazimi is rare.
    Thank you for the information and explanation. I do like to learn as much as I can.

  10. Dear econdude,

    It must have taken time to find some minor point to grumble about. This article is almost 10 months old! Your comment has not been approved as it is not of general interest. Its’ content has however been noted.

    It is not my policy to discuss charts, however incomplete, of my readers. If someone feels the need for this I am sure there are plenty of other forums on the internet to do this.

    I find talking about “me” (whoever the “me” might be) boring. I do not cater to it and do not encourage it in a public forum.

    • Hello Eva,

      Cazimi, is when a planet is conjunct the Sun with a maximum arc of 17 minutes. Such a planet is said to be in the heart of the Sun. It is fortified and strengthened by the Sun. Beyond 17 minutes the planet is combust. It is no longer fortiified by the Sun, instead its light is burnt away. This is a debility.

      Sorry for the delay in answering you.

      best regards,

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s