The Trutine of Hermes

The second question of “Ye Quizze” tested your knowledge of the Trutine of Hermes. None of the multiple choice questions was right. I chose this particular technique as the name is exotic enough to attract the attention of any traditionalist! 😉

So what is the Trutine? It is basically an axiom which expresses a reciprocal relation between Asc/Desc and Moon for the time of conception and the time of birth:

The Ascendant or Descendant at conception is the position of the Moon at birth just as the position of the Moon at conception is the Ascendant or Descendant at birth. It is reciprocal:

Asc or Desc / Moon (Conception) = Moon / Asc or Desc (Birth)

The word trutine is I think a corruption of the latin trutina, which means a balance or set of scales. It is obvious why! The Moon is the central generative planet and the horizon is pregnant with birth symbology!

The 51st Centiloquium of Ptolemy describes it thus:
“In what sign the Moon is at the time of birth, make that sign the ascendant in conception; and in what sign she is found at the conception, make that or its opposite the sign ascending at the birth.”
(the full text of this collection of aphorisms can be found at Deborah Holdings website)

Here are two charts where only the Moon is shown to demonstrate this:



Notice that the Ascendant in the Conception chart is at 26 deg 09 Virgo. The particular chart this was taken from had a known time of birth. The original chart has 22 Libra 20 on the Ascendant and the Moon at 26 Pisces 09. The tables Lilly gives in “Christian Astrology” give only an approximation of the gestation time. One has to look at the ephemeris for the exact day. In this particular case it was 2 days off. Now if the original chart had been rectified according to this method there would have been 9 minutes difference in the time. Nine minutes is fairly close, but is it exact enough?


9 thoughts on “The Trutine of Hermes

  1. Dear Thomas

    Well, it would be important if that 9 minutes took the ascendant into a different sign wouldn’t it?

    Would you then stick to the ‘known time of birth’ or would you rectify the chart via the Trutine to give a different sign on the ascendant? This without using any other method of rectification I mean.


  2. Dear CarO,

    It certainly would. It might also be helpful if one has one of those tricky at the beginning or end of charts with times that are on the hour or half-hour (such times are usually suspicious!) I don’t think that this technique alone will keep one from wondering. But it might be helpful if one needs at least some orientation.



  3. Hi Caroline and Thomas,

    As the Trutine as the reciprocal relation between Asc/Desc and Moon, this concept is what prompted me to become involved in earlier forms of astrology.

    As such, what I found as one of the more interesting revelations is that each month in gestation is reflected as seven-year periods outside the womb.

    With this approach, we can calculate the out-of-womb experiences (using the Trutine based calculations) primarily with the Moon or Ascendant to further fine tune our considerations.
    e.g. 1 MO (27.3 days) =7 years
    1/2 mo = 3.5 years
    1/4 mo= 1.75 years
    And so on.

    If an event had taken place when the child was 8 years of age we should see that event astrologically by the 33 (+/-) day in the gestation period. One of the representative progression points, Moon or Ascendant, would indicate the
    event and we would be more certain of our Trutine research. Adjust that with an event for 8 years for the birth Ascendant and we could be reasonably sure of our decision.

    IMO, this may be one of the reasons why the Moon was held in such great esteem for so many centuries. Its speed can be used as a great abacus.

    Yours in service
    Sir Arthyr

  4. Dear Sir Arthyr

    Do you have any example charts that you can show us please?

    (I find that I learn better ‘by example’ than if you posted a textbook of theory! :0)


  5. Hi cARo,

    Yes, with Solar-Fire, start from the conception chart and using the “Animate chart” procedure, advance the date every 27days + 8 hours, you’ll end up with 10 charts.

    On page 347 in my book I wrote out a table of dates to make the process easier, still quite a bit of work but you read the chart like you read Horary charts.

    The Ascending signs, Moon of course, and aspects are the chief instigators.

    For example date of birth – Female:
    January 14 1940, 6:25 AM Long Beach CA 33N46 118W11
    Moon 7* Pisces 07

    Prenatal conception (without the Trutine exercise), April 10, 1939, 2:51 PM (use same location)
    Descendant 07 Pisces 07 (night birth)

    Now advance the chart add 36.4 days plus 2H:36M (19* Virgo Asc.) and we find Moon, Venus conjoined Saturn. Mars is just past the square to Saturn with the Moon ToL from the VE/SA conjunction to square Mars.

    This chart is very revealing as it describes the father (H4th)
    as a party-loving individual who like to drink and womanize.
    He did not want any children as he felt it would severely cut down on his “playtime.”

    We found that my client’s father was very abusive and soon after the mother announced she was pregnant with my client, in a drunken rage, the father kicked her mother in the stomach trying to abort her.

    Relative to the 40 day incident in gestation, by 8 years of age (real time) the client was struck by lightning and survived.

    I have many interesting charts on this research. One other client found that during the 4th month of gestation his mother had climbed up into an apple tree and couldn’t get down. She had to be rescued.

    When this client was 28 (4 mos gestation) He discovered that the company he worked for was being embezzled. As a junior officer, his reports were dismissed as jealousy and he found himself in a situation where he couldn’t get anyone in the company to take his findings seriously enough to help solve the situation. The company went bust!

    Based on Martin E.P. Seligman, Ph.D, who is noted for his research on learned helplessness, I have found that humans are imprinted by the mother’s emotional responses regarding her situations during gestation. And this is apparently revealed in an astrological chart based on the timing of any strong emotional experience during a mother’s prenatal gestation.

    Good for a research project, if you use it, mention my name as it is part of my initial research mentioned in my Book “Ancient Whispers from Chaldea”.

    Sir Arthyr

    • Sir Arthyr

      Your example date of birth is incorrect as follows:
      “January 14 1940, 6:25 AM Long Beach CA 33N46 118W11
      Moon 7* Pisces 07”
      For the Moon to be at 07 Pisces 07 she was born on 13 January 1940.. This produces an ascendant at 12 Capricorn 32.

      Do you agree?

      Best wishes

      Maidstone UK

    • Sir Arthyr

      i am still working on this and have a question. The Moon is waxing but below the horizon so according to the Trutina rules that i have access to, the Conception should be more than 274 days and the conception Ascendant should conjunct the natal Moon; whereas you have shown as a night birth opposite the ascendant. Have I accessed the wrong set of rules? please point me in the correct direction.

      best wishes


  6. Dear Sir Arthyr

    Thank you very much indeed for these excellent examples.

    I’m afraid the Trutine of Hermes doesn’t work in my chart, (I have one of those charts where undue planetary influence has either pushed forward or retarded the time of birth) but I did try out the Solar Fire option as you suggested, which when you press F8, throws up the Bailey Conception Chart. And following that, I see that I now have a possible 4 dates of conception to consider.

    Unfortunately, my mother led a comparatively uneventful life during my gestation, and so perhaps I am not a good candidate for this type of experiment.

    However, I would love to hear of any other readers of this Weblog who do know their true conception time, and who also led an eventful life whilst still in the womb.

    Thank you once again.

    Best Wishes

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